It’s no secret that Rafael Grampá brings the goods when it comes to delivering stories with action and message—  and that goes double when it comes to his Batman (as evidenced by his work on Dark Knight Returns: The Golden Child). But personally, as someone whose curiosity is piqued by subversive approaches to art and is even more spoiled when the direct idea of “ugliness as beauty” comes into conversation, Grampá is someone whose work rides the line between the grotesque, textured mayhem of the underground comix and the palatable grace of the mainstream – a line that few have managed to tread successfully over the years, and line that leaves me always asking for more in ways I rarely experience when reading a comic from one of the Big Two publishers.

So luckily for, well, anyone with a lick of sense, the same off-kilter taste, and an appreciation for the famous caped Crusader, Grampá’s name finds itself on Batman: Gargoyle of Gotham — a new project involving the Dark Knight; this time with Grampá behind the pen on both writing and illustration. While I was excited to hear more about the project itself, what really interested me was how Grampá felt under the pressure of the Batman title, a staple of mainstream superhero comics, while maintaining his voice and the possibility of a legacy of his own. Popverse  was fortunate enough to grab Grampá for a chat about his relationship with Batman and the potential legacy of creating comics under the Batman name during Comic Con International San Diego 2023.

Popverse: This is one of those times where it feels like I could ask you things for ages but I’m under the gun for time! So in that case let’s jump right in. You’ve had a hell of a show already when it comes to your name being tied once again to Batman. Talk to me a little bit about your relationship with the character.

Rafael Grampá: Sure! Yeah, I had started drawing and I was trying to draw Batman. I remember showing it to my mom and she didn’t recognize it as Batman; she thought it was a donkey [laughs]. Well because of that I decided that I needed to practice more and to show her more drawings and make her understand what I was seeing. So it’s all kind of a connection between me and my mom and the character.

That’s so sweet!

It really is important. I like doing this project especially because it feels like a family thing now at the same time, you know what I mean?

Totally. And along with your own family you’ve kind of been officially indoctrinated into the history of the Bat Family as well, right? You’re stepping into a long line of people who have contributed to the history of Batman.

It’s a big responsibility. I’m such a big fan of so many of the artists who have done Batman already. I love Frank Miller. I love Scott Snyder. Paul Pope. Oh, and of course Frank Quitely. I mean these guys are so influential and they’re also my friends.

Not a bad gig when you look at it like that [laughs]

Right! And I think when you take this character you need to make it a big homage for all of the creators who made it into everything too. Without them there’s no Batman. The passion that creators have put in make the fans love the character, and the fans are the heart of everything. It’s so good to be a part of this now. It’s very new and exciting for me.

With that kind of legacy in a character and with so much behind it in terms of creator talent, how do you go about adding your own spin onto something like Batman?

That was really hard. When I pitched the idea and DC gave me the green light I was like 'Oh shit, well now I have to actually do it!' [laughs]

Well that’s the worst part isn’t it? [laughs] You come up with something and then have to follow through. [laughs]

I was reading a lot of Batman books and books about human nature and that sort of stuff because I really wanted to do a Batman story about human nature. I found this bit in Batman’s origin by Bob Kane and Bill Finger where Batman makes a promise for the spirit of his dead parents. And he decides to become a bat because a bat enters his room and he sees it as this kind of omen. I thought that it was an interesting belief system to explore. It’s in the DNA of the character. He believes in something beyond reality — so I’m bringing that back to his personality.

So when it comes to the art aspect of doing this, talk me through a little bit of your process. Your style is so much of a change-up from what we’re seeing elsewhere in comics.

Being considered different is a big compliment, so thank you.

It’s just very distinctive. You can look at any one of the pages you’ve worked on and know it’s a Rafael Grampá. How did you develop that?

Well it was difficult to find a style because when I was younger I used to draw in a lot of different styles — cartoon stuff, more realistic stuff, whatever. It was a big goal for me to find a voice and a personal style. When I found that — when I finally started to see something that wasn’t too similar to what another artist I was following — that’s when it became like…oh wait, maybe this is something I can finally develop. What I wanted was to have a style that wasn’t quite mainstream but wasn’t quite underground. I wanted something that would fall in between so that I could have the freedom to work with a mainstream publisher, but also with publishers who were more indie. So that’s how it all started and that’s still the way that I like to draw now. It’s a good representation of my tastes, but it’s also me trying to bring an experience to a reader that’s showing them something that looks really good but is not actually beautiful.

That feels like a great way of summing up your style, honestly. There’s a texture that’s not as smooth as something most people would call straight-up beautiful. It’s really singular in that way and it’s really marvelous.

Yes! And some people will see it and say that they don’t like it, but maybe when they look at it again they will see that it’s not attractive in that way, but it’s attractive in that it’s well done in a new way. I have this intention of bringing in ugliness when trying to make something beautiful.

So for my own curiosity — did you have an interest in the American underground scene because of that? I see a lot of Robert Crumb in your work. I know [Frank] Quietly is usually peoples’ go-to when comparing your influences but I see a lot of Crumb in how much you choose to render and over-gesture.

Oh totally. Crumb is a massive influence also. I love Crumb. So was Daniel Clowes! But then again so way the early Disney drawings. Sometimes I look at the hands I draw and go 'Oh fuck those are Mickey [Mouse] hands' [laughs]. I think my main influences when it goes more indie is Frank Quietly and Paul Pope though. And Frank Miller! I’ve just tried to mix all of it together with my own stuff.

Sure, sure. I mean that’s part of being an artist isn’t it? Mixing together everything that you’ve accumulated from life and art to make something your own.

Exactly. There wouldn’t be a Rafael Grampá if there wasn’t a Frank Quitely or a Frank Miller and all of those guys. They live in my head all the time. When I’m drawing I’m like 'Oh this looks kind of looks like Jimmy Hatlo! I hope people recognize that so they know who he is, too.' We’re always making an homage to the people that we love.

I mean hey, give it a few more years and there’s going to be knew up-and-comers talking about how they grew up trying to draw like you.

It’s crazy isn’t it? I’m starting to think about this now. I just read this comment on my Instagram — you see, I posted this picture of a cover Frank Miller did for Batman: Gargoyle of Gotham and I was like 'Fuck. This is just such a blessing. What a gift.'

No kidding, dude. That’s no joke.

Yeah, man. I don’t remember him doing Batman covers for other Batman books before. Maybe he has but…man. It’s just such an honor that he did a cover for my project. But the comment was that after I’d posted the picture with a caption that said 'Frank is my hero blah blah blah' and all that, someone said 'For some boys, you’re going to be their Frank Miller'. Just…oh my god, right? I had never thought about it until reading that.

Absolutely. Someone is going to pick up Batman: Gargoyle of Gotham and it will be their first time reading Batman. You’re going to be someone’s first Batman.

Holy shit, right?

[laughs] No pressure or anything.

It’s a big responsibility, but that is something that makes me excited to do even better. [San Diego Comic Con] actually is the result of everything that is happening right now. I went to the hotel yesterday after the convention and thought 'Fuck, I have to draw. I need to draw more. I need to draw better right now' because people are so generous when they come into these shows to meet artists. It’s all about love. They’re giving me their feelings when they tell me they love my work and that’s just so incredible. It’s the fuel for me.